The Outsource Advantage

Derek Kissos (00:00.994)
Hey everyone, and welcome to the Outsource Advantage, the show where we help you understand how outsourcing can provide an advantage in your business. Really excited about today's episode. We're featuring Carla Dumas, the Vice President of Farm Animal Protection at the Humane Society of the United States. Carla's organization helps thousands of animals every year fighting all forms of animal cruelty through rescue, response, and sanctuary work.

Carla is also a registered dietitian, tons of experience in nutrition education and influencing nutrition policy. Carla, welcome to the show today.

Karla (00:40.338)
Eric, thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here with you today.

Derek Kissos (00:44.386)
Yeah, absolutely. Look, I'm excited about this. So I'm ready to jump right in with the question. You know, I'd like to start with, I know a little bit about the Humane Society, given some of the just the work HHS does in the food services business across our industries, but want to start with really what inspired the founders to start the Humane Society. And then follow up is, you know, were there really any gaps or needs out there that motivated them to do so?

Karla (01:13.938)
Yeah, so I would say, and just to give a caveat, I've been with the Humane Society for nearly 10 years. So I was not there when HSUS was founded, but nearly 70 years ago with the organization itself and really what the founders were.

looking at is just addressing many of the issues related to a variety of different animals, protections that happen at the state and federal level, but also locally. So thinking about, and I know we'll kind of talk about a little more related to the department that I lead in the program work with farm animals, to wildlife, to companion animals, like the dogs and cats so many of us share our homes with.

Derek Kissos (02:05.506)
That's great. Do you have pets yourself?

Karla (02:08.242)
I do, I do. I have a handful of rescued dogs and cats and then I do also operate a small farm sanctuary on my property too. So I have some of the farm animals that we'll be talking about today.

Derek Kissos (02:19.714)
Wow.

Derek Kissos (02:26.082)
That's great. You know, as that question was coming out of my mouth, I was going, man, I really hope she says yes. Because that would be an interesting point in this podcast starting out where you're talking about helping animals and you don't have any yourself. So I'm glad the answer was actually yes. Well, hey.

Karla (02:33.458)
if

Karla (02:42.45)
Well, and the nice thing is, yes, and going back to that, Derek, yes, I certainly have probably more animals than I need to have in doing this work. But, you know, the beautiful part of the work that the Humane Society does and so many volunteers and individuals and supporters within the organization is that you don't have to have the animals.

Derek Kissos (02:49.506)
Yeah.

Karla (03:05.746)
to necessarily understand the need of instilling many of those protections for them as well. So yeah, it's a good mixture.

Derek Kissos (03:15.778)
Yeah, that's great. You know, I think a lot of people out there, well, maybe not a lot, but some individuals out there know the Humane Society. Everyone has basically heard of it. But to give our listeners and viewers an example, can you share something, a program, an initiative that was developed into a response for a specific need or gap in the community to kind of give us a little bit more insight in the...

the actual things that the Humane Society does and you can do it in general or in your area that you support.

Karla (03:47.338)
Yeah, I'm happy too. Well, one really exciting piece of it is, you know, we do have a very strong legislative end of the work that we're doing. So we have multiple team members across the board that are looking at leading measures that are going to protect, you know, from

Thank you.

Karla (04:12.018)
dogs and cats to again to wildlife to farm animals at the state as well as federal level. And interestingly, we are talking about the United States and

the organization itself, but we also have an international branch that works on a lot of these issues globally too. So one specific example I can give and then I'll kind of transition into some of the specifics with the department that I lead is access to care. So we know that there's so many individuals that have pets that they love and wanna care for so much, but...

Derek Kissos (04:26.946)
wow.

Karla (04:49.906)
financially they may not be able to have the care or get the care that they need. So the Humane Society works with a lot of local shelters, veterinarians, other areas to help provide that access to care and make it easier for individuals to provide the care that they so much want to give to their pets. So that's one example. And then kind of on the other side of it,

with our farm team, you kind of reference some of it there, but we work in a variety of ways to address welfare improvements of farm animals. And that's done, as I mentioned, from a legislative end, but also working with corporations, very much like HHS, that are interested in shifting their purchasing practices to either higher welfare protein ingredients,

but also simultaneously working to diversify the protein choices through innovative culinary and menuing initiatives centered around plant -based ingredients. So ultimately it's looking at how are we reducing some of that reliance that we, as a country and the industry itself have come to rely on animal proteins, but knowing that there are,

health implications, environmental implications, and then also ethical implications there when it comes to that. So looking at how we can reduce that.

Derek Kissos (06:25.25)
That's great. And I imagine there's a lot that goes into that not only people but also back -end processes and a ton of stuff that happens kind of quote -unquote behind the scenes. And so talk to me a little bit about how you incorporate technology into your operations. You know, whether it's improving efficiency, tracking progress, enhancing animal care, whatever that is. Can you just enlighten us a little bit on what how you incorporate technology or innovation into your organization?

Karla (06:54.098)
say I'm not sure it's as much technology as maybe some innovation or tools that our team has that can support corporations. Again, like I'll just use HHS as an example because we have such a strong collaboration with you all in terms of what we're doing when it comes to menu innovation. I mean you all have a fully capable team that is looking at procurement, menus,

Derek Kissos (06:59.746)
Yeah, great.

Karla (07:20.818)
We also know that based on where you are geographically in the regions, there's foods and food preferences that individuals want and may or may not be willing to try. Some things move a little bit quicker. So one thing that we have done with the Humane Society of the United States and the work that we do here is

employ individuals, many of them coming from the food service industry. So recognizing where some of those challenges may be, the obstacles and how best to really navigate that and support corporations that are looking to diversify their menus with protein choices there. So we have a team of expert chefs.

former food service professionals. I know you mentioned early on, we have registered dietitians. I myself am a dietitian. I came from the school food service world prior to joining HSUS. And then we also have specialists that are really designed and have the expertise to help with menu development, institutional food service, a lot of the bid and procurement practices, knowing kind of where those challenges are, but also recognizing that

you all, this is a singular issue and this is an issue that we are focused on, but you all are dealing with a multitude of different issues when it comes to it. I'm just talking food service. I know there's so much more that goes into that. So we really want to come in, provide custom support, and I can go into kind of some of that support and resources there. I think it fits into what you were talking about with like

Derek Kissos (08:49.282)
Yeah.

Karla (09:03.186)
technologies and resources there. But our our goal is to really make this as easy and seamless as possible, but also very successful. So I mentioned we have a team of chefs. So we have chefs that come in to a lot of recipe testing and development. So that R &D process, I know that's one area that HHS has really utilized our support with some of the global bowls recipes. And we've seen a lot of success there.

We also offer a lot of different trainings and prior to the pandemic, I think this is a story we can all talk about. We were doing a lot of in -person training. So we would come and travel, work with the food service teams where they have the ability to kind of play around with plant proteins or different ingredients that maybe might be a bit newer to their repertoire in terms of what they're doing. And they have firsthand ability to taste the foods.

kind of modify, provide their feedback. And it really helps with creating that one team where, hey, we're launching something new. We want to get everyone's feedback thoughts there and bring it forward. We also do a lot of support when it comes to marketing and education for customers as well. And the benefit to what we offer is being a nonprofit, we can offer these resources at no cost. So that of course makes things a lot easier on the.

the company standpoint, you know, as long as we're able to continue to measure that progress as to what's going on. We also offer for those interested, we consult with an environmental consultant that provides what is called a life cycle assessment. So it tracks the carbon reduction. So a lot of times the benefit of adding more plant -based ingredients to menus is reducing your carbon impact. Food is a very

easy way to see a big change when it comes to sustainability goals. So we have those resources as well. And some of the technologies going back to the trainings, we were doing a lot of those in person prior to the pandemic, had to kind of shift the way we operate as did pretty much everyone during that time. And so now we have the capability of doing virtual culinary trainings, which you may think like, how is that going to work?

Derek Kissos (11:17.73)
Yeah.

Derek Kissos (11:24.822)
wow.

Karla (11:27.09)
but it really gives the food service teams more flexibility in timing and the ability to kind of play around with it. But we can also bring together, I know HHS has hospitals and healthcare systems you're working with across the country. It has the opportunity to bring those individuals together so that they can work together and kind of have that conversation. So those are some of the examples of resources and.

some of the technologies that we use to support companies.

Derek Kissos (11:58.978)
That's fantastic and I bet a lot of what you just talked about is going to answer my next question. But I did want to ask, there's a lot of different animal welfare organizations out there. In your view, what really separates the Humane Society and either your approach, your programs to make you different from those other organizations? And I don't mean to say you're better, worse, anything, just differences out there.

Karla (12:22.898)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think it's important. There are many organizations out there in terms of the work that we're doing when it comes to specifically the farm team work. And what I would say is our approach and we've been, you know, we've been doing this work for nearly 15 years with the food service side of it. And what we have really found.

is that in order to create these lasting successful menu changes or changes in supply chain, but going back to those menu changes, the food has to be delicious. Like you can, you could put anything out there, like you could put plant -based items, but if it's not something that's going to be delicious, appealing, that people want to eat,

they're not going to eat it. So it's not necessarily, it's definitely not helping when it comes to the bottom line and the success of the menu items. But on our end as well, it's, it's not helping to kind of shift that overall reliance on animal proteins. But what we have focused on is the culinary side. So that is something that is very different from other organizations. So providing that custom

culinary support with recipes, trainings, we do on demand videos. We also will do a variety of different tastings with customers and different ways to engage the customers to make sure these food items are something that people are gonna wanna eat. And I think I referenced the global bowls. Those were the first set of recipes

that we actually worked with you all on. And since then, I know we've done a variety of different recipes. But I just remember Marta from your team talking about, I think it was, and forgive me if I'm getting this wrong, but I think it was a hospital in Alaska where they were launching, it was a bowl that had tempeh in it as the protein. And they weren't sure how it was going to go. And it actually sold out. So I mean, I think it's a testament to

Derek Kissos (14:38.658)
That's right.

Karla (14:40.722)
how delicious and exciting the food can be, that's the really important piece of it. And that's what we push forward and feel very strongly about. And that's where we lead our efforts.

Derek Kissos (14:55.106)
Yeah, and I can attest to firsthand, I talked to a lot of our culinary experts and I think the way I phrase it is, you kind of incorporate yourselves into our approach, right? Where it's, you kind of get in the proverbial foxhole with us and develop. And a funny story on that, I've always been opposed, I'm a meat person, I love meat, just in general. My wife gives me a hard time when she makes something, I'm like, no, I can't eat this, there's no protein in it.

But it's funny, one of the first times I had something that I liked without meat was one of the bowls you guys helped us on, our Sustainable was one of them, which was really good. But then one of our chefs, her name's Trula Hepner, she works in Arizona, and she made a, and actually she won an award for this, she won Top Chef in Lake Havasu for this coming out of a hospital, which is crazy to me. But it was a scallion pancake with impossible meat.

And it was the first time, hey, I had a scallion pancake. I didn't know it was impossible meat. She's like, just shut up and eat it. And so I did, and I loved it. And so now she always has that over my head. But I think those are examples of, at least in my perspective, how you guys help change, which is you don't just tell us what we should be doing for the good of X, Y, or Z. You actually come in there and help and coach and collaborate with organizations to do it, which I think is just such a unique benefit out there in the world. Yeah.

Karla (16:14.482)
Yeah, well, I love that. I love that story and especially to hear that one of the sustainable recipes was the one of the first plant based recipes that kind of got you excited about it. And that's that is true. I mean, the idea is is looking at really just expanding the ability. You know, we see so many menu items and I know myself even just thinking at home, if I'm left to my own devices, I'll have a rotation of a few recipes I make and you get used to what

Derek Kissos (16:24.386)
That's right.

Karla (16:44.436)
you're eating. But this is really exciting and what I loved about the global bowls and our contribution with the sustainable is it's really expanding the repertoire, bringing in global flavors, really being.

creating excitement around the menu. And I think it does open up the conversation. Like you were saying, like, I don't know if I'm going to like this or, hey, I don't think there's enough protein, but it's, I love the approach where it's like, shut up and try it, but whatever works, but.

Derek Kissos (17:13.954)
That's right. That's right. I always need to be told like that. I need to be turned in no uncertain terms, just shut up and do X. And then I'm like, yes, ma 'am, or yes, sir. So that's how I'd mostly try new things. You know, one thing that, Carla, that's really apparent to me is the unique culture that you guys have. I think in everyone I've met with HSUS, I know from our teams, myself personally, that's what's one of the things that really stands out to me.

Karla (17:23.41)
you

I'm sorry.

Derek Kissos (17:42.082)
How does your leadership team, yourself, really what qualities internally do you think drives that culture or drives how you guys really stand out in the marketplace?

Karla (17:42.902)
you

Karla (17:51.73)
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a testament to the organization being around as long as it has been that we are the largest animal protection organization because we bring in teams that are experts within that work. And what it is as well is we have this, at least in my opinion, from an organization standpoint, is the idea that we can't do this alone, that it is going to take

a very large community and bringing everyone together to the table to talk about how are we going to create the changes we want to see and what needs to be done and bringing in a variety of different considerations and ideas there because, you know, going back to what you were talking about on the previous question where it's not us coming in and saying,

This needs to be done. This is the way you do it. Recognizing that no matter what issue HSUS is focused on or talking about, that there are very unique challenges and it's not a one size fits all process. And bringing in, hearing those concerns and really trying to remove a lot of those obstacles and challenges.

Derek Kissos (19:06.978)
Yeah, that's great. Looking ahead a little bit and looking on to the future, what role do you see outsourcing just in general playing in the Humane Society's strategy to really improve the outcomes out there and its impact? And so what I mean by outsourcing is vendors like ourselves, as organizations out there look to outsource food service or dining or nutrition, do you see the Humane Society

Karla (19:33.842)
Thank you.

Derek Kissos (19:34.466)
kind of playing a larger role in shaping what your strategy is going forward. Can you just talk a little bit to me about that? And I can rephrase that question if it came off. I'm on my first cup of coffee today, so I'm a little slow.

Karla (19:46.194)
Well, let me see it. Let me try and answer this. And if it's not kind of the direction you're you're wanting, we can talk through that further. But I think the foundation of the work that we do is outsourcing in many ways in the fact that we are working with HHS. We're working with many other food service companies to provide the support needed. So whether it's again, shifting some procurement changes within the supply chain. So

many, many companies and we work with many of them on moving to cage free eggs or gestation, create free pork. So removing the cages and crates, also looking at chickens raised for meat, higher welfare standards there, knowing that, you know, we're not necessarily involved on the supply chain side, but we can on the flip side, we are working with many of those egg pork.

and chicken producers. So knowing what they're doing, how quickly that's going, and we can certainly outsource our support to help companies like HHS and many others that are looking to make those changes have a realistic plan on how to do that because knowing there are many challenges and complications with that same thing with the menu, you know, what we try to do from an HSUS perspective is

look to always evaluate like here are the resources we have, but are those the needs that companies are facing? Like what are the challenges? We want to hear what the obstacles or challenges are. Of course, we'd love to hear success stories and how wonderful things happen. But in order to create the change that we all collectively want to see, we have to really identify what those

Obstacles and challenges are so we're constantly trying to kind of figure that out and look at that. So I feel like our strategy is not being afraid to shift strategies or shift the way that we are are working and continue to add support. I mean, I think again shifting to it's just a very basic example like for virtual trainings where we thought that was going to be something that was just during the time frame where we were all.

Karla (22:07.826)
working from our from home and our computers. But we're still seeing success with that. I mean, we do a lot of in -person trainings now, but offering just another resource there. So just being open and being very nimble in terms of what you all within the industry need to make those changes. We're here to support.

Derek Kissos (22:30.882)
That was fantastic and somehow you answered exactly what I was looking to get. So I'm glad my fuzzy brain didn't impact that. Well, saying on a same kind of track on future looking, where do you see Humane Society and HSUS in general just headed over the next five to 10 years, let's say?

Karla (22:34.674)
Good. Good.

Karla (22:48.946)
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, a lot of the issues and from an organization standpoint, we, you know, fight the big fights in terms of these are these are massive issues that we are working to address and any kind of real change takes time. And it's not something that we necessarily anticipate, you know, in in a year or two, being able to.

to see the change we wanna see. So I think if anything, just continuing to provide that support and really look at where the needs are from the conversation that we're having when it comes to diversifying menus and what that looks like. I think what we are continuing to see and have seen even over the last 10 years is that more and more people are curious about

decreasing their meat consumption. It doesn't have to be eliminating it. And there's a variety of different reasons why people are doing that. We're seeing younger generations, especially at within school districts or colleges and universities that are looking to do that. I think there's so many different labels, whether it's vegetarian, flexitarian, just overall looking to reduce.

And that's the idea. It's how do we continue to build on and provide what customers and what individuals are looking for? We're seeing that with consumers at restaurants and in grocery retailers as well. I know you mentioned Impossible. I mean, we're continuing to see some of those items come out there, but also from a culinary side, the innovation just with mushrooms or different ingredients, like what you can do there.

I think more and more people are getting really excited. And so I'm excited and what I will, what I predict is that we're gonna continue to see that shift, continue to increase.

Derek Kissos (24:40.002)
That's right.

Derek Kissos (24:52.13)
That's great. You know, it was funny. I think this was a couple nights ago. We were watching. I was watching two young kids and I was watching some dinosaur show with my son who's four and he's big on dinosaur trivia. And he was telling me all these people who are herbivores and carnivores and all these. And I was like, yeah, that's kind of like a vegetarian. And he said, dad, I'm a candy terrian. And I said, son, that's not a thing. Okay. That is not a thing. But the next

Karla (25:15.762)
I'm not sure if that's good.

Derek Kissos (25:19.81)
Even this morning he woke up and said I got a candy today. I'm a candid tarion So I think I'm gonna be dealing that with that for a little while But I don't want to keep digressing into into things like that. Yeah Well, hey switching gears a little bit just talking about you, you know What are you most proud of achieving in your role with HSUS?

Karla (25:22.738)
Thank you.

That's it. You have a smart kid. Very smart.

Karla (25:35.122)
Okay.

Karla (25:42.066)
So yeah, yeah, I think, and this may be a little cliche, I'm not saying this just because I'm talking to you with this, but one thing that I've seen is, again, I came from working in a large school district for nearly 10 years in Florida. And I worked with nutrition education. I oversaw roughly over

Derek Kissos (25:42.21)
Tough question.

Derek Kissos (25:52.066)
Yeah.

Karla (26:09.874)
100 schools there in terms of the food service and cafeterias and was also in charge of menus and the big process there. So I think going from that in creating some of the change in the work there to working with HSUS is I really value the relationships that we have built with companies like HHS and many others that we have worked with because

You know, you all are, you are making the change. That is what's happening. We're just, you know, a tool in the toolbox for you all, so to speak. But that's what I really value is building those relationships and collectively being the change that, you know, we want to see that you all want to see as well. So I think those relationships are so important and something I'm very proud that our team has continued to evolve and delve into.

Derek Kissos (27:04.77)
great.

Derek Kissos (27:08.546)
Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, tell me something that we wouldn't know that you're passionate or like doing outside of work.

Karla (27:17.234)
Okay, let's see here. Well, I very much. Yeah. Well, I will say I'll kind of do a roundabout with that. But first, I do when I can, I enjoy running. So my goal and I've done all kinds of different, I try to do different races and that sort of thing. But as

Derek Kissos (27:19.842)
And you can't say taking care of animals. I'm going to take that off the plate.

Derek Kissos (27:29.602)
Perfect.

Karla (27:41.842)
As I'm getting older, my goal has been to run at least one half marathon a year. So my half marathon for this year is scheduled for December. I pushed it as far back as I could to give myself time to prepare for that. But I also just very much, I live in Florida. I'm blessed to have relatively good weather right now, summer, depending on if you like.

a lot of heat and humidity, but you all are in Texas, so you understand a lot of that weather. So I do enjoy being outdoors as much as possible. I mentioned, I do also have a menagerie of rescued animals, including farm animals. So they're on my property and it has forced me to learn new skills like carpentry.

Derek Kissos (28:10.434)
That's right.

Karla (28:30.578)
fixing fences, broken water lines. So there's a lot of skills that I've developed in just being outside that I didn't necessarily want to learn, but now I'm thankful that I have some of those skills.

Derek Kissos (28:43.618)
That's fantastic. You know, I haven't run since I left the military and I'm very proud of that. Yeah. Well, Carla, I really appreciate you coming on. You know, this has been a great conversation. The work you guys are doing is absolutely phenomenal. And you know, our team takes a lot of value out of the support and collaboration that HSUS provides us. And so thank you again for coming on. Any parting comments before we close out here?

Karla (28:45.746)
.

you

I know, I need to find a new hobby.

Karla (29:11.154)
No, no, I don't think so. I just thank you again, Derek. This has been a blast. Anytime you want to have me back, I'm happy to do it.

Derek Kissos (29:19.042)
That's great. Well, everyone, thank you for listening or watching. If you can, please like and subscribe. And thanks for joining the Outsource Advantage. Everyone have a great day.

Carla, thank you.